Boiler Failures

two years in the making... A Very Long Read

Although our truck only needed one diesel fired hydronic boiler to fulfil the heating requirements, two were installed to provide redundancy in case one failed when travelling in remote cold climates, like our own Canadian north. We wanted the Webasto product because of its reputation for reliability, and the near worldwide coverage of its sales and service network. Webasto benefits were listed as:

• Engine-independent heating for heavy commercial vehicles, offering up to 9.1 kW of heating power

• Fast warm-up, even at the lowest temperatures

• Low heater power consumption due to highly efficient design

• Highest product quality with long service life

• Automatic altitude adjustment up to 3,500 m (standard)

The Start Of The Ordeal

Fortunately, the failures didn't happen when we were in the frigid north, but starting only three months after we took delivery of the finished build, they did happen… often. Beginning in February of 2016, time after time the boiler(s) would shut down and we would get an error message from the Webasto Smart Controller on our main control panel. Most often, the error code that popped up said that we had a problem with the temperature sensor on the boiler. We sent the info to the builder, and after some delay, they said that the temperature sensor must be faulty, and needed to be replaced. So after two weeks of waiting for the replacement sensor to arrive, it finally shows up. I called the local Webasto service outlet, a heavy truck repair facility, to see if they could install the sensor for us, and they asked me to bring the truck to them so they could determine if it is something they could do. So after an hour of driving, I pulled into the yard and went to find the service manager. When we got back to the truck, he took one look at it and declined to help us. It's not a Webasto model that he'd seen before and didn't feel confident they would know what to do. Terrific. Back home I go. Like so many times in the past, it's going to be up to me to fix it. So after going online, and getting the installation manual from the Webasto site, I find the relevant section and get the tools out.

Of course, true to form, the morons at the builder mounted the boilers to the wall backwards, so all of the things we would ever need to work on are all on the backside, and out of view. In order to get the sensor out, I had to get a tiny mirror in order to see what I was doing. After turning the air blue with my utterances, I finally managed to get the defective part out, and the new one in. Job done. At least we thought so.

The Ordeal continues

No more than a few days went by, and the boiler shut down and an error code popped up. Once again, it said the problem was with the temperature sensor. Two defective temperature sensors? What's the likelihood of that happening. So once again, I email the info to the builder. A week goes by, no response. I email them again, and get a reply that they are consulting with Webasto. A few days more go by and finally they come back with instructions on how to clear the error code so we can fire up the boiler again. This time they want time measurements as to how long it runs before shutting down, and whether we were using the Smart Controller to run the boiler, or the wall thermostat.

We inform them that we were using the Smart Controller, and that it ran for one minute and 50 seconds before shutting down. We didn't need the wall thermostat, as we didn't need to heat the cabin, just the domestic hot water. So they instruct us to try using the wall thermostat, which we did. The boiler didn't shut down this time, but ran on until we shut it down... approximately ten minutes. Ah... there must be a problem with the Smart Controller. So they send us a new Smart Controller. It arrives after another two week wait. We install that, and fire up the boiler... one minute and 50 seconds later, the boiler shuts down and an error message pops up. So not the smart controller.

Second Boiler, Same Story

Up to this point, we were always running the boiler on the passenger side of the truck. We did so because we were told that this side was the primary boiler, and the driver's side boiler was the backup. So now the brain trust down at the builder instructs us to fire up the backup boiler and see if it runs okay. So we do. One minute and 50 seconds in, and that boiler shuts down. Two defective boilers, and two defective Smart Controllers??

We try running the second boiler from the wall thermostat, and it also keeps on running past the one minute 50 seconds until we shut it down at around ten minutes. So the builder now has no idea, and had to consult Webasto. Understand that it has now been almost three months since our initial complaint of a boiler problem. We're into May, and wanting to use our truck. We think to ourselves, if the boiler only shuts down when using the Smart Controller, then maybe its a wiring issue and for now, until they can get answers from Webasto, we can just use the wall thermostat to run the boiler in order to get hot domestic water. Sure it will heat the cabin in the process, but that's not such a big deal.

We try to Make Do

We start provisioning the truck for a trip, and one cold day while working inside the truck, we turn on the wall thermostat to heat up the cabin. Up fires the boiler, we wait for imminent failure at one minute 50 seconds, but it runs on. Great, our idea worked. We go merrily about stowing stuff inside the cabin and all of a sudden, the boiler shuts down. It's been 11 minutes and 30 seconds. The temperature in the cabin was still below the thermostat setting, so why did it shut down?

We try the other boiler. After 11 minutes and 30 seconds, it also shuts down. Crap! We aren't going anywhere. So it’s back to the builder, and again, they have to consult Webasto. At this point we are frustrated beyond measure. We end up with the builder's electrician and engineer on the phone with us, try this, try that... nothing changes. Once again we get the "We have to consult Webasto" statement. I ask to have the name and phone number to the Webasto person myself. I mean really, why wait for the two day delay from the middle man if I can just talk to the Webasto tech myself. They give us the info.

After talking with Hank at Webasto, the head technical expert and training person, and trying the few things he suggested, it's determined that we need to have a Webasto repair person look at the problem with their diagnostic computer. I explained to him what happened when we went to the truck repair shop, a listed Webasto service centre, for the temperature sensor replacement. Hank puts me on hold for a minute and them comes back. He has the name of another dealer about an hours drive from us in a different direction, and we take the truck there.

We have high hopes that this will put an end to three plus months of screwing around. The tech gets out his computer, hooks it up to the boiler ECU and... nothing. He can't get his computer to communicate with our boilers. He tries for a half hour to get it to work without success until I rather strongly urge him to phone Webasto technical support. He does, and the end result is we drive back home with less fuel in the truck tank, and no solution. I call Hank.

By this point Hank agrees that he must come and have a look at the problem in person. But there is an obstacle barring his way. It's called the international border. Hank's in the U.S., we're in Canada. To him, we are in a foreign country, and he can't enter with his tools to fix anything because he doesn't have a work permit. So after some back and forth, he suggests we take the truck across the border and meet him at a Webasto dealer in Renton, Washington, just south of Seattle. That's a four hour drive for us each way. What else can we do but agree.

In Renton At the Webasto Dealer

A week later, and we are at the Cummins dealer in Renton. The head tech at the dealer is there with the Webasto regional sales manager. Both really nice guys, and very sympathetic to what we have endured thus far. The tech gets his computer out, hooks it onto one of the boilers, fires it up and in less than a minute identifies that there must be a restriction in the lines because the boiler chamber heats up way too fast. He checks the second boiler, and discovers the same thing.

It's now late in the day, Hank is flying in the next morning from Portland. So we agree to come back then, and go looking for a place to camp for the night. The next morning, not only is Hank on scene, but also the owner of the body builer, along with his electrician. Hank starts trouble shooting to try and find the reason for the restriction. If we can solve that, then the boilers should run fine. After all, this model of boiler has been Webasto’s workhorse for years, and never fails.

Meanwhile I am chatting with the other Webasto person, and learn a lot about the product and the company. He even offers to give us, free of charge, the $800 interface module so our own computer can talk to the boilers. This way if we ever have a problem again, we can hook up and diagnose things ourselves. We had no idea how prophetic his offer was.

At last, Hank and the builder's electrician find the restriction. At least they think so. A valve marked "T-90 Supply Bypass", is turned a certain way. They turn it the other way, and the boilers seem to run fine. They run them for an hour, no problems. The builder thinks, "Stupid customer turned a valve, it's all their fault." We all pack up and go home.

The Solution Presents itself

But wait a minute, is it true? Am I really an idiot? Can't be, I'm a self-proclaimed genius, remember. So I start looking at this valve they accused me of moving. I then look at the plumbing, and the hoses leading away from that valve. They don't go to the other boiler like the builder said, and as labeled by them. The lines actually go to the black water holding tank.

I start analyzing everything, look at every hose and pipe. Trace every circuit from start to finish, and yes, I am right, the valve is not a by-pass valve to the other boiler. It's actually the diverter valve for the black water holding tank heater, so the black water doesn't freeze in the wintertime. I run the boiler, and feel the hoses going to the black tank… no heat. All the other lines are too hot to touch, but the black lines are cold. I crawl under the truck so I can feel the lines just as they go into the black tank heater, and then have Wendy turn the valve. Within seconds the cold lines heat up to the point where I can't keep holding on, and one minute and 50 seconds later, you guessed it, the boiler shuts down and the error message pops up. ARGH!!!!!!

The real Analysis

Now I start thinking about our usage of the truck up until the first failure at the end of February. We had been using the truck all through the winter, travelling through the Canadian Rockies in sub-zero temperatures. We thought the black water tank was being heated by the boilers when ever they fired up. But they couldn't have, since the valve was turned to by-pass that circuit. I guess we just got lucky and nothing froze.

When we got through the winter, and the cold weather was behind us, the valve in question must have gotten turned when I was working in that compartment making some organizers. At that point, the valve went from closed to open, and all the restriction of the black tank circuit came into being. That's twenty-five feet of hose, and countless elbows, not to mention the resistance in the tank heater itself. That must have added enough resistance to the flow of the system that fluid movement slowed down, thus allowing extra heat to build up in the boiler and shut it down.

So why did the boilers run longer when using the wall thermostats. Well, when examining that point, we discovered that there is another circulation pump that turns on when the wall thermostats turn on. It circulates the hydronic fluid through the cabin interior heaters, and this additional pump was enough to move the fluid away from the boiler fast enough to prevent overheating. When using the Smart Controller, this pump didn't turn on.

Testing the Hypothesis

As it happens, there is a third circulation pump on the hydronic system. It's plumbed into the system right on the plumbing wall and remains off until the ignition for the engine is turned on. Then it starts pumping to move the fluid through the system so the engine heat can heat the cabin.

I would be able to use this feature to prove my resistance to flow hypothesis. If I'm right, the initial diagnosis by the dealer in Renton would be correct. Too much resistance in the system. So I fired up the boiler using the Smart Controller. Remember, with the black tank circuit engaged, the boilers should shut down in one minute and 50 seconds, and they did. Now I turned the ignition on in the truck cab, cleared the error code and started up the boiler again with the Smart Controller. The boiler kept on running beyond the one minute 50 seconds. So the extra pump was helping. But the boiler did eventually shut down around the eleven minute mark, just like before when using the wall thermostat.

Okay, what if we add a third pump? We could do that. The first pump from the boiler itself, the second from the truck ignition, and a third by using the wall thermostat instead of the Smart Controller. So we did, and the result was that the boiler just kept on running. An hour later it was still running. So to us this proved that the whole problem was insufficient pumping to satisfy all scenarios.

We checked all this with Hank from Webasto, and he said it made perfect sense. So we informed the builder and insisted that they send us another pump, which they did. We installed that pump just in front of the black tank diverting valve, and the system started working the way we wanted. Hooray! The end of this nightmare, and four months with an unusable truck.

Sorry, Not done Yet

Unfortunately, that wasn't the end of it. Later that year, when we were at the builders getting the de-laminated wall worked on, the boilers failed while we were in their parking lot. It was hot, over 85ºF. We had to wait almost a week for the glue to come in for the wall repair (guess they haven't heard of FedEx), and we wanted hot water while living in the truck. We turned on the system, and it failed. But not before rupturing the line that feeds the radiant floor heat. Fortunately I heard the line go, and saw the steam, so was able to shut the system down right away.

The builder fixed the burst line, and when we had the errors come up for the boiler temperature sensor, they replaced that too. It was a big job, as the sensor actually melted in half, and they had to take the boiler apart to get the bit out that fell inside the chamber. But the system still didn't run properly. Other error codes were coming up now, ones that didn't make sense. They called Webasto, and it was determined that the boilers must have faulty ECUs. Two boilers, both with exactly the same thing? What's the likelihood of two boilers both having blown ECUs. Sure they had consecutive serial numbers since they were bought at the same time, but really, how could there be two bad ECUs. Either way, Webasto sent over two new ECUs. The boilers seemed to work, and we had to leave the builder to get home.

Builder Deception

Before leaving the builder, their engineer came out with two five gallon pails of hydronic fluid for the heating system. They said that the fluid in our system had been discontinued, and if we had to drain the system for any reason, we should use this new fluid as a replacement. Like so many times before, we knew what he said was a bold faced lie. The very day before we had been over to the builder's plumbing wholesaler and bought a five gallon pale of the old fluid as backup in case yet another failure happened. So not a discontinued item. Besides, if the fluid was discontinued, why then did the shop workers refill our system with the old fluid when they fixed the problem with the boiler.  After all, dismantling the boiler meant that most of the fluid in the system had to be drained out. At that point wouldn't it be logical to flush out the system and refill with the new fluid? And why, when asked by us, did the builder's engineer fill a one gallon container with the old fluid, so we'd have it for topping off the system if needed. None of that would make sense if the the old fluid was no longer available. 

We just took the new fluid from them, and blew town.

The Real Problem With The Boilers

It's the end of November, 2016, by the time we get back home. The weather is getting cold, and by mid December we need to leave the heating system running in the truck to keep our water lines from freezing. We open the black tank circuit so it doesn't freeze, and figure we're done. Not so. The boilers fail again!

More blue air, and not because of the sub-freezing temperature. We have to move the truck to an RV park nearby so we can plug in and use an electric heater to keep the pipes warm. On January 2, I'm on the phone to Hank at Webasto. This time, because we had the computer interface, we were able to hook up to the boilers and give Hank the readings. He said the readings meant that there was no fluid in the boiler chamber. In other words, it was air locked. We turned on all the pumps without starting the boilers, squished the hoses by hand, and could hear a big blast of air bubbles being pumped through the system. Once we thought all the air was gone, we fired up the boiler.

We watched the computer read out as the boiler heated up. This time it looked okay, it was heating up slowly. But then after about 10 minutes, the readings all went to hell, and the boiler shut down. We had another air lock. But where could the air be coming from? This boiler drew its fluid right from the reservoir, and there was plenty of fluid. Hank's analysis was that the air in the boiler chamber was coming from the fluid itself. The fluid must not be moving through the system fast enough, and the boiler is literally boiling the fluid and producing steam that airlocks the chamber. Result, there must be something wrong with the fluid, and it needs to be changed.

Fortunately, we had the new fluid given to us by the builder. Hank told us it had to be a 50/50 mixture of fluid and water. He thinks the old fluid was pure, undiluted glycol that was too thick to easily absorb the heat of the boiler, and too viscous to move it away from the chamber quickly. So after waiting for a warmer sunny day, we moved the truck back to our storage area, drained the old fluid out of the system, and refilled it with the new fluid. But before we did, I called the fluid manufacturer to check on the fluid. Was it the right stuff for our aluminum boilers, and was it pre-diluted to 50/50. The tech at that company said it was indeed the right type of fluid for our aluminum boilers, but it is diluted 60/40 with water. So a little thick for us. We added the appropriate amount of water to give us a 50/50 mix, and pumped it into the system.

The End of It All

Almost a year later, and we haven't had one single problem with either boiler. NOT ONE! All of this nightmare, almost a whole lost year of truck use, ALL because of an idiot builder who not only put the wrong type of fluid in our system, but fluid that was also undiluted!

I can't begin to count the number of hours we have spent working on this problem. The trip to Renton was completely unnecessary. All the failed components on the Webasto boilers were caused by the boiling of the improper fluid, and all the time and money expended by Webasto was an unnecessary expense for them. All of this, because the builder didn't read the instructions on how to install the equipment.

Post Script

At the end of January, 2017, I get an email reply from the builder regarding my continual requests for them to pay for our costs of bringing the truck to them for the wall delamination. After all, it cost $4,000 for the fuel to get there and back, and for the month in the hotel, none of which would have been necessary if it wasn't for the avalanche of incompetence emanating from the builder. The reply from the builder states that they will pay the bill, but then continued on to criticize us for not letting his staff change the fluid. That the fluid in our system was incorrect, and that his engineer had told us that.

Wait a minute, that's not what his engineer told us. So I guess the engineer is now lying to his boss as well. The builder continued on to say that they had discovered the issue with the fluid back at the beginning of the summer, and told Webasto. Really? We've had nearly two years of grief with our heating system, they discover that the fluid was the problem months before we showed up at their door, and they didn't send us that important information as soon as they found out. What's with that? Another lie I expect, since we knew a long time ago that Hank and an engineer from Webasto were going to the builder in August to actually train them. We found out when we were in Renton that the builder had just been winging it. They'd had no training whatsoever, and didn't know anything technical about the system, how it worked or what to use with it. So I'm pretty sure that the builder didn't discover they were using the wrong fluid, but rather it was the Webasto engineer that discovered the builders mistake and told them.

It's just more in the unending flood of lies and deception that has been washing over us from the start of the project.

The Good Part

A few months after we installed the new fluid, we got an email from the Webasto regional sales manager that we'd talked to when we were in Renton. He was responding to an email we sent Webasto about how our system was now functioning perfectly, and thanks so much for all their help and patience with the nightmare we had been through. In his email he mentioned that he had been flying recently with the CEO of Webasto North America, and discussing our story. Both the CEO and the sales manager agreed that they should send us some spare parts like the temperature sensors, so we'd always have them on hand if a problem did surface again. He also stated that if we ever had a problem with the boiler chamber or flame tube because the wrong fluid had been used in past, to let them know and they would assist us in getting them fixed, free of charge.

Hopefully that occurrence will never take place. But imagine the feeling of relief we felt knowing that, for the boilers anyway, we had a product from a world class company, and they actually did care about their retail customers. We can't say enough about that company, and the people working there.

If you ever need heating equipment for a vehicle or vessel, do yourself a big favour and BUY WEBASTO!